I have missed posting on apricotpie these past two months. My summer has been really busy and I have had sooo many ideas that I simply can't seem write it down on paper...yet. It's frustrating. But anyways, this is the story on how I became a Christian. I hope you'll be encouraged. :) ******* When I was five or six, my family and I went to listen to Billy Graham when he came to preach in New York. I don’t remember anything of his sermon but I do remember that I went up when he gave the altar call. Many years later, I began to doubt if I really got saved that day—or was ever saved at all! I reasoned that back then I was too young to understand his message or what being a Christian meant. I also reasoned that I had not remembered that I had changed afterwards. I began to have fear and I worried a lot. I was scared of what would happen if I died the next day and didn’t go to heaven or what would happen if the world ended the next day. I worried if I would have to go to school and how I would be able to avoid doing things that school required and I held as wrong. I also struggled with rebellion in my heart. When times were difficult, I was angry on how things turned out and I rebelled in my heart against people when I didn’t agree with them. And because I kept it all these things and others inside, I became bitter and confused on what I believed. At times I got so confused; I didn’t know who to believe anymore or what to do. I felt that life was unfair when little and big things didn’t go the way I wanted. Anger came easily. I was angry and bitter at the people who hurt me. Looking back at my diary, there were a number of times when I just was hateful, depressed, angered, and bitter all at the same time. That’s was when the doubts came in if I was really a Christian. I saw how people in Followers of Jesus Mennonite Church lived for God. I observed the ladies in the congregation and a few other Christian ladies I knew. I saw what joy they had and how earnest they were in serving Jesus. I wanted to be like them; have the peace, joy, and patience they had. I felt trapped, I didn’t know which way to go. I saw two paths in front of me—one path that led to God and His promises if we followed Him and another path that led to Satan and evil desires. I wanted to be a Christian and re-dedicate my life to Jesus so badly but it just seemed so difficult to give up so many of the things that I felt and I knew that were necessary to be a Christian. I spent much nights in bed praying and thinking. Some nights I almost, almost asked Jesus to come into my heart again. But then I would realize how much I would have to give up. I just couldn’t do it. I wanted so much to have true peace and joy in my heart. But every time I was about to open my mouth and ask Jesus to come into my heart, Satan would bring me to other thoughts or tell me not to. One long night on March 19th, 2012, I was praying when I could feel a voice telling me to follow Jesus and re-invite Him into my heart. My heart raced and my stomach seemed to be all tied up into knots. My heart beat faster and faster as I thought, "Why not?" But then, as usual, Satan came and reminded me of all the things I would have to give up. Then the Voice reminded me of Jesus and all the things He would give. Then Satan came again and repeated all that I would have to give up. Inside I felt like there was a raging battle going on between God and Satan and myself. One side was saying no and the other side was saying yes. Suddenly, a thought struck my mind, "Why am I listening to Satan?" That question caught me completely off-guard when I suddenly realized who I was listening to this whole time--Satan. And that was when I finally re-dedicated my life to Jesus. Then I felt it--joy, peace, hope--things I had never truly experienced. Immediately, I felt a love I never really had before. I was able to forgive. The rebellion in my heart, the hidden bitterness, the hate, and the anger all disappeared! And now, after all these years, because of Jesus, I now have joy, peace, and…victory! _____ Just before my baptism, I read this to my church family out in the sandy beach on August 11th, 2012. I just wanted to share my testimony to the world--I hope to encourage you all as Christians to stand up for Jesus. Excerpt from my blog so I don't have to say it all over again. :) My baptism on August 11th will always be one of the happiest days of my life! All my sins are washed away by the blood of Jesus! My sister made this sign awhile back that says, "Thank God I'm Forgiven--TGIF". It could never be more true or relatable. I'm really glad that I got to finish my testimony before Saturday because I was kind of hesitant on what to write and all...but I finished it. And although I really thought I wouldn't cry (especially since I read it over and over and over again at home without any you know, overly strong emotions), I did. I guess it was because I was just so overwhelmed about how many dozens of different kinds of emotions were in me while I was speaking that I just had to stop reading and cover my eyes. I was slightly embarrassed of course, because I don't like people see me cry. ;) Please thank the Lord and pray for me. Satan has been tempting me more than ever! But, I am just so thankful for a caring and loving church. All their encouragement, advice, warnings about the devil, prayers, and cards on that saturday and on sunday was just so meaningful to me.
Comments
Yes, God is wonderful! :) I
Yes, God is wonderful! :) I would love to read your testimony if you ever get to type it out. :) And about Calvinism...what are the five points of Calvinsim? I am a Christian but if you were wondering what denomination I am, I am not a Calvinisit, but an Anabaptist or Mennonite. :)
"It is not the length of life, but the depth of life." Ralph Waldo Emerson
The 5 points of Calvinism
1 Total Depravity
2 Unconditional Election
3 Limited Atonement
4 Irrisistable Grace
5 Perseverance of the Saints
I should have asked the question differently, do you have reformed theology. If you don't know exactly what each point means you can read about them here. I wouldn't say that I am a Calvinist, but have reformed theology.
"My greatest wish for my writing is that it would point you to the Savior."
I read over the link. I don't
I read over the link. I don't really agree with all of things Calvinists believe eg. predestination and "once saved always saved". But now, you just said that that wasn't your question.
I know that reformed theology is mostly about you know, we are all wretched sinners and we can never, ever be perfect but Jesus has saved us from eternal death...WHICH is correct, but the Bible doesn't never really emphasized on that but it has emphasized "without holiness no man shall see the Lord". So I tend to concentrate on that. So the answer is no, I don't have reformed theology.
You can disagree of course, but I would hate if this would to turn into "I'm right and you're wrong, so there!" because as long as we all are following the Bible and living for Jesus, it doesn't matter what theology we support as much as we are looking in the Bible for biblical answers. If you know what I mean.
By the by, did anything in my testimony cause you to ask or you were just curious? Just wondering. :)
"It is not the length of life, but the depth of life." Ralph Waldo Emerson
Thank you for the answers.
I completely agree. Apricotpie is not the place for such a debate or discussion; and such a discussion should be discussed with love, and all politeness.
Well, I like to figure out what different people's beliefs are, but your statement "re-invite Him into my heart" caused me to ask.
Is what you believe what all/most Anabaptists/Mennonites believe, or just you/your family/your church believe?
"My greatest wish for my writing is that it would point you to the Savior."
:)
I DO enjoy learning more about how other people belief's are too. I don't mind if we share what we believe because then we are learning. I don't mind debates either, but the heated debates are what I was worried about. But the only problem is that apricotpie is for writing. Well, you're responding to my writing and we're replying back to each other...so this discussion isn't really off-topic, maybe? But anyway, was were you wondering about my "re-invite Him into my heart" statement? What did it sound like...as if I was a Calvinist or what? Was there something wrong in what I said?
I wrote "re-invite Him into my heart" because as I described in my testimony that I didn't feel that I really became a Christian at the Billy Graham crusades. I just had a little child's view on what being a Christian meant. I mean, I had believed in Jesus and that He was real, but I didn't do anything about it. During those years of struggles, there were times that I doubted if Jesus was real. But now, as I read the bible more, and as I grow older, I start to understand what being a Christian really means. It's exciting, every time I read the bible over again, it just reveals more and more things that I never realized before! So, that's why I said "re-invite".
I still didn't get it. So you agree with the 5 points of Calvinism or you don't?
I believe whatever the bible says. I'm not sure if what I believe all Mennonites believe, but as for now, I go to a Biblical Mennonite Alliance Church. Some things that they and I believe: that infants shouldn't become baptized because they don't even know their own name, that we Christians shouldn't take up arms and fight, Christian ladies should cover their heads when they pray (if you want to know more about that, I already have an essay about that), Christian ladies should dress modestly, and some other things.
I have to say, that once upon a time, I didn't even know what a Mennonite was. You see, my family came from a Presbyterian church-- we left it three years ago and have been attending the Mennonite church since then. Switching churches has definitely helped me become how I am now. Just like I said in my testimony, because I was challenged by the people in my church, I finally made the right decision to follow Jesus. But back to your question. Since there are many different types of Mennonites--lots are more conservative in dress than me eg. others wear cape dresses (a dress that has an extra layer of material starting from above the waist for extra modesty) and I don't. And of course, there are other examples; like some Mennonites don't use the internet, and I do. ... But what I am trying to say is while I can't say that what I believe, all Mennonites believe because of the examples I stated just before, I believe what my church believes...if it's biblical. It has to be from the Bible.
p.s. I just want to clarify that Anabaptists and Mennonites are nearly the same thing.
"It is not the length of life, but the depth of life." Ralph Waldo Emerson
Wow, okay...
Just been reading everything... hope you don't feel like I'm butting in or anything, But I just wanted to put my bit in.
First, I don't think there was anything wrong about your "re-invite" thing; at least to me anyway. Arthur might have a different view.
Second, (Btw, I don't get some of the 5 C. points, either.) Can you point this essay out of yours (if you've posted it on AP) so I can read it? I'm not sure that I agree with the Christian women praying with their hands on their head.
Third, if you don't mind me putting out my bit, I wanted to say that I'm... it doesn't have a domination name. My family believes in a biblical church; a few things that consists of is: You don't have pastors, or "worship leaders", you have elders, and they don't 'lead', only when someone else has a misinterpretation, or a wrong doctrine, then they correct that person. You see, a biblical church should not be one person (or the church committee, whatever you want to call it) organising everything, preaching everything. A biblical church is led by the Holy Spirit; um, wait. Everyone (there should only be a max of 30 people) should be be able to contribute, by praying, sharing a verse or song, or a tiny prepared message that should go only for a five minutes max. And, this is biblical, that after your "church meeting" is to have a meal together. That is just a little sneak peek at a biblical church.
I'd love to do more study on Anabaptists; my dad has just been reading a book, The Secret of Their Strength, and says that the history of them is very intriguing. I myself have just been reading a story about a woman who went through the Spanish Inquisition as an Anabaptist.
My family also believes in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture; but that's a different topic and should be (if wanted) discussed on email.
Phew!
Goodbye? Oh no, please. Can’t we just go back to page one and start all over again?” – Winnie The Pooh
:)
*sniffles laughter with difficulty* Oh no, when I said I believed that Christian ladies should cover their heads, I did not mean cover their head with their hands, of course! I meant, with a piece of cloth. If you look at my user picture (go onto www.apricotpie.com NOT apricotpie.com because for some reason, it only shows up on www.apricotpie.com) and you can see an example of what I am talking about. As you can see by the picture, I cover it with a round piece of white cloth. It doesn't matter how others do it so long as they cover their head with something eg. Amish wear this mesh covering, some other people wear scarfs or wide headbands, or even a hat, etc. The reason why I cover my head is very biblical. 1st Corinthians 11 clearly states that we Christian women should cover thier head... go see it for yourself. Feel free to disagree...and something tells me that you will. But I don't mind. :)
Your church sounds really interesting. I like the idea of not having a particular denominal name. Because we all are CHRISTIANS...we are following Christ.
But what are your doctrines? Do you have any theology? Because theology is important because it is studying God's word but it should not come alone; we must live it out as well. In my church (and many other Mennonite churches) after the sermon, we are invited to share a testimony, thoughts from your week or the sermon, verses, etc. That is one of the highlights of the service--it can become very deep and yes, sometimes even emotional. We also are invited to just name a song during the singing and they will sing it too.
I had wanted to read the book youn mentioned but I didn't get to yet. If are really interested, I could recommend you some books about the Anabaptists for you to read. The Anabaptists have really challenged me!
Oh yes, I won't be able to discuss this over email because I am not allowed to email much so I guess we'll just have to discuss here.
"It is not the length of life, but the depth of life." Ralph Waldo Emerson
:)
Thank you for writing this, Lucy! It's wonderful to hear how He's worked in other people's lives!
I'm going to take a guess that Arthur wasn't wondering about the "re" part about re-inviting Jesus into your heart, but the concept of inviting Jesus into your heart, a phrase that waters down what true belief and true repentance are, leads many to a false assurance ("I know I'm a Christian because I asked Jesus into my heart," not because of the fruit of the Spirit), and can make salvation very man-centered and lose sight of judgment and redemption.
...
You are very welcome...I just wanted to note that this testimony you have here is a very shortened account of all that Jesus has worked and done to me. And there are much untold stories. :)
Oh! I am really sorry if that sounded like that because I did NOT mean that to go that way. I do believe that we need to have faith in Jesus and live it out --have fruit as well. I'm so sorry for sounding like that.
"It is not the length of life, but the depth of life." Ralph Waldo Emerson
Yes, that's sort of what I was getting at...
I should write an essay on The Five Points of Calvinism.
Lucy Anne:
What Kyleigh said.
Yes, I agree with the five points of Calvinism. So I'm a Five point Calvinist, though I wouldn't call myself a Calvinist.
Correct! Infant baptism is unbiblical. Those who defend it say that it is symbolicly consecrating the baby for Christ. Fine do that, but get baptized again when you are older, and understand what it means to be a Christian. Baptizm isn't something that you have to do to get saved, just something that says to every one else that you are a Christian. Babies who don't even know their own name are not saved. I disagree with "Christians shouldn't take up arms and fight. This is the one thing that keeps me different from Anabaptists.
I agree with you in that women should have there head covered when in prayer, and since we are to always be in prayer, women should have there head covered always. We see this in 1 Corinthians 11:5. The thing is, if you read further you will get to verse 15 which says,
"But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering."
Does that not mean that long hair is a covering? Please correct me if I am wrong. I also agree with the modesty in dress, both guys and girls, and wish that there were more people that took that seriously.
I have read Through Fire and Water, a history of Mennonites, and I didn't know that they were different than Anabaptists; I thought that they were called Anabaptists first, until someone (I forget who) started calling them Mennonites after Menno Simons, who by the way was one of the great reformers in my mind.
Maddi:
Does your church practice tongues?
And where did you get your max number of people(30)?
Kyleigh:
I would be interested to know if you agree with the Five points, and your view on "coverings".
By the way, is my picture visible?
"My greatest wish for my writing is that it would point you to the Savior."
Mon, 09/10/2012 - 01:32
In reply to Yes, that's sort of what I was getting at... by Arthur
As I've said before Megan,
As I've said before Megan, your testimony was really beautiful and awesome! God is soo good! :)
Now, goes off to see the what the arguement is about....;)
Love,
Sarah
Proverbs 3:5-6
Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him and he shall direct thy paths
P.S
Go to my blog and follow it: Sarahanneandrews.wordpress.com
:) for my sake, follow
Do you know Lucy Anne from somewhere outside of apricotpie?
Sarah Andrews:
Do you know Lucy Anne from somewhere outside of apricotpie?
Also, I thought you might want to know that in your signiture, you have "they" instead of "thy".
"My greatest wish for my writing is that it would point you to the Savior."
Mon, 09/10/2012 - 01:48
In reply to Do you know Lucy Anne from somewhere outside of apricotpie? by Arthur
Arthur: Nope :) But we're
Arthur: Nope :) But we're good friends, we call eachother and write snail-mail :)
And thanks about my signature, lol! I'll go fix that :D
~Sarah
Proverbs 3:5-6
Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him and he shall direct thy paths
P.S
Go to my blog and follow it: Sarahanneandrews.wordpress.com
:) for my sake, follow
Arthur -
I am a 5-point Calvinist (though often prefer Sproul's amended version, especially for "perseverance of the saints," he changes it to "preservation of the saints," since it's God who preserves us not us who work harder to keep our salvation). But it's a matter of phraseology not theology.
As for head coverings, I would tend to agree with you, Arthur, though I have understanding and respect for the other side as well.
I quite agree.
I really don't mind, and respect those that believe in it. They are actually willing to obey God. I think that the cloth in the hair has a beauty to it, like certain hairstyles.
"My greatest wish for my writing is that it would point you to the Savior."
Finally. :)
Arthur:
Why wouldn't you call yourself a Calvinist if you believe in those 5 points?
I agree that Christian women should cover their head at all times because we should be "praying without ceasing". I appreciate your thoughtful questions and here is a link that you can read concerning that matter.
http://truthinheart.com/EarlyOberlinCD/CD/Doctrine/BeVeiled.htm
I don't want to copy and paste it because I don't know if it has copyright or not and it'll take up way too much room. So, click on the link. Scroll slowly all the way down in Chapter One until you see verse 15. That is the reason why I believe that it is still necessary for Christian ladies to cover their head with a piece of cloth. Do you disagree after reading that?
Yes, sorry for being confusing. Anabaptists and Mennonites are the same thing. But I can say that I am an Anabaptist (ana means "no") because I have been re-baptized as a believer in Jesus Christ.
I too, wish Christians now take modesty more seriously and not brush it away as unimportant.
Oh, and if you're wondering why Sarah calls me Megan, it's because Megan is my name. Lucy Anne is just my username. I chose Lucy Anne because I just admire Lucy's faith in Aslan in the Chronicles of Narnia and Anne from Anne of Green Gables. I want to change it to Megan but I can't since it's already been used. :) And you (and all of the APers) may call me either Megan or Lucy Anne. I think Lucy Anne is a prettier name, but when people call me Megan, I feel more like they're talking to me. So, your choice.
Maddi:
I am wondering too where you got the max number (30).
Sarah Anne Andrews:
Thank you. By the way, it's a discussion, not a argument.
Arthur and Kyleigh:
Thank you for being gracious and loving and understanding to me on the way you speak to me on these topics. Not everyone does that, so I really appreciate it. :) By the way, do you two know each other personally?
"It is not the length of life, but the depth of life." Ralph Waldo Emerson
I just wanted to say I
I just wanted to say I enjoyed reading your testimony, Lucy.
I have hated the words and I have loved them, and I hope I have made them right. --The Book Thief
Oh, sorry for that
Oh, sorry for that misunderstanding Lucy Anne. And, I’ve been absent a couple of days. Big weekend.
Okay, anyway, I went to 1st Corinthians, and read and felt a little confused. Then I talked it over with mum, got a better understanding of it. Here we go. I hope you don’t mind.
First, there is ONE sentence in the Bible that says women should cover their heads. You can’t make a doctrine out of one passage that’s not backed up by several other passages in the Bible. In 1st Cor. 11:15-16 it says: “But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her as a covering. 16 But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.”
There it is. Firstly it says that we already have a head covering; our hair. God has already given us one. Naturally we already have one. I think its wrong anyway (not based on anything in the Bible; at least not to my knowledge.) to have the short haircut of a boy. It looks disgusting. No offence to anyone who has to have their hair short because of cancer, or sweats a lot or anything.
And it says that there is no such custom, and in the churches of God. Phew! Okay, I’m really sorry if I just busted your bubble or anything, and I’d love to know your side of the argument.
Alright, the biblical church. Now first I want to clear things up. I’m not trying to lay the laws down; like: “this is exactly how it is meant to be and if anyone does something different it’s not biblical. “ No, no. Arthur, when I said max 30 people, I didn’t mean that to be biblical. Sorry, sometimes I’m not very clear. First up, the first churches met in the homes. And, since not many people have mansions, it’s not very expected to have a meeting of 200 people. And because of the thing that every person in the meeting should contribute, I don’t think there should be a big amount of people; you’d be there all day!
And I’m not saying that the churches that all you people go to is not biblical. God could move in a meeting of 50 people, he could move in a meeting of 15.
Arthur: At the moment my family and I don’t go to a church at the moment because we haven’t found one that felt right. Arrhhh! It’s so frustrating! Dad wants to start his own. For now we just have our own bible studies at home with our family. I love it; it’s very fulfilling. And yes, my mum, dad and me (recently; 3 months ago, yay!) all speak in tongues. Do you believe in it?
And I strongly disagree with the baptism of babies. Why bother doing it when the baby can’t have any say in it??
Hope I answered all your questions. :D
P.S. I just wanted to say to Lucy/Megan that (thanks Kyleigh, you reminded me) for actually sharing your testimony. And also when Kyleigh made that “re-invite” clearer, I realised what Arthur was saying. Some churches/people believe that by just inviting Jesus into your heart makes you a saved Christian. That’s a no-no. You have to REPENT of your sins as well. And its okay, I’m sure we know what you meant. Well, at least I did. Oh, and Arthur, no, your picture’s not showing.
God Bless
Maddi :D
EDIT: I'm sorry, I haven't been to that link yet, I just posted my comment. I'll go now.:D
Goodbye? Oh no, please. Can’t we just go back to page one and start all over again?” – Winnie The Pooh
I am a Reformed Baptist, but
I am a Reformed Baptist, but I, too, believe in the head covering, though only in church for me. But, I also believe in modest apparel.
About losing salvation, I believe you cannot lose your salvation, because God says that "for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." Hebrews 13:5;
The thing is, when people leave God, and show no interest in trying to follow him or do his will, it most always means that they did not "lose" their salvation, merely, that they were not saved in the first place.
Christians can "fall away" for a while, yet God always brings them back unto him, many times by chastening.
So I believe that 'once you are saved, always saved' :)
Also, "My Father, which gave them me[i.e, his children], is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."
So, yes, I agree with Megan and Arthur, :) Some of Megans beliefs I don't agree with and some of Arthurs I don't.
Maddi's, I don't agree with a lot of what she said, though.
And about infant baptism, I do not totally disagree with it, unless the parents are going to tell their children that they are saved because they were baptized when they were babies. But I know that usually they do it to dedicate their children to God. :)
So, that 'tis my bit :)
~Sarah
Proverbs 3:5-6
Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him and he shall direct thy paths
P.S
Go to my blog and follow it: Sarahanneandrews.wordpress.com
:) for my sake, follow
Hey Sarah, just out of
Hey Sarah, just out of interest, I was wondering about your belief about not losing your salvation; and if you weren't saved in the first place. Anyway, I have a question for you: What assurance do YOU have right now to know that you're saved?
And about the baptism, why would parents want to dedicate their baby in front of everyone? What is the point? Everyone who knows the parents should understand that they want to bring their child up in the godly way? I don't have anything against people who do it, but its really pointless, especially if they think that their giving their baby a pathway to heaven and salvation before they know how to even talk. Now, that's pointless. :)
Goodbye? Oh no, please. Can’t we just go back to page one and start all over again?” – Winnie The Pooh
:)
I was absent these couple days because I just recovered from a 100.9 F temperature, back pains, headaches, and eye-pain. I slept the whole entire day (no joking) away yesterday and now I feel just like new. Well, almost. I'm still a little tired. But whew! :)
Anna: Thank you!
Maddi: What do you mean there is only one sentence saying that ladies should cover their heads? Doesn't the whole chapter in 1st Corinthians 11 talk about covering? And what do you mean that we can't make a doctrine out of a verse from the bible? Doesn't every verse in the Bible count? It is God who is communicating to us in the Bible and I suppose that whatever He says we should obey. Please read the link if you didn't. The link talks about that verse that seems to contradict the whole passage but it really doesn't. And yes, I believe in tongues. My mom went to a ladies conference with the ladies in my church and during some sharing, one of the ladies spoke in tongues. That's just so neat that your family and you spoke tongues, Maddi! :)
EDIT: I'm don't think that dedicating babies to God is pointless. It's just a symbol that the parents are going to raise the child up for God. Just like adult baptism isn't pointless. It's a symbol that I'm going to obey and follow after Jesus.
"It is not the length of life, but the depth of life." Ralph Waldo Emerson
Maddi: I am assured of my
Maddi: I am assured of my salvation because I have peace and an assurance that only God can give to me that I am saved. I am assured of my salvation because Jesus has shown me in more ways than I can tell that I am his child. I re-dedicated my life to Jesus at age eleven, and I can truly say that I am one of his children :)
What about you? How can you be sure that YOU are saved?
Megan: I agree with you about Head coverings and infant baptism, not so much the tongues, though ;) Haha, lol! :D
~Sarah
Proverbs 3:5-6
Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him and he shall direct thy paths
P.S
Go to my blog and follow it: Sarahanneandrews.wordpress.com
:) for my sake, follow
To Answer:
Lucy Anne/Megan:
The reason I do not readily call my self a Calvinist is because many people think that that is the same as Hyper-Calvinists. Read the Hyper-Calvinism section in the Calvinism article on Wikipedia. So truely I am a Calvinist.
I found a few things in this article that you might want to consider. There arguement was that the word "Peribolaion" means "something cast or thrown around". I found this definition and not the other, "a covering thrown around, a wrapper-a mantle-a veil." Here is the most litteral translation of the verse that I could find, "but a woman if she wears her hair long, a glory to her it is? because the long hair instead of a veil has been given to her." Now lets replace veil with mantle, "but a woman if she wears her hair long, a glory to her it is? because the long hair instead of a (mantle) has been given to her." So her hair is like a cloak or a robe? It doesn't make sense that way.
I believe that you can change your user name.
Maddi:
In verse 16, "But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God." It is talking about no such custom of being contentious. Basically the church of God will not allow rebellion.
I do not believe in tongues, not now a days, but to explain this would be a long and lengthy process. I will give you one verse here, but that's all for now. "Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away." And tongues did cease, until the early 1900 when certain heritics introduced it, and it has become more popular ever since. I should write an essay on this, for this subject would be far too long to pay justice to in the limitations of comments. Please feel free to urge me to do so. (Meaning: Please remind me to write about this subject!)
Sorry, I did not mean to say that infant baptism was wrong according to the Bible, but that biblical baptism was not of infants. The baptism of babies wouldn't be an bad thing except for one reason. For really the idea of it is quite good, "it's just a symbol that the parents are going to raise the child up for God." That is in fact a great idea, except for one reason. The reason is that it takes away from true baptism, and most people that practice it, don't practice true baptizim.
You can't lose your Salvation once you are saved. The Bible doesn't leave a doubt about it. Just one example is "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand." Never perish; that's what it said. Does that mean that you can fall away from God and still go to heaven? No!
Here is my assurance that I am saved: I know that I am saved because Jesus Christ, the Son of God, dead to purchase my salvation. I believe in Him and He is now Lord over my life; and the Lord gives me this assurance. 1 John 5:10
Thanks for telling me about my picture, I just wasn't sure if it was only me who couldn't see it.
Sarah Andrews:
You could call me that, a Reformed Baptist.
Right on for "perseverance of the saints", or as RC Sproul puts it "preservation of the saints" which is more correct.
"My greatest wish for my writing is that it would point you to the Savior."
:)
My thoughts on tongues: While I wouldn't say I believe that tongues are completely gone (there may be few instances of them actually being of the Spirit; they are rare but I do not want to say they absolutely are gone), I do believe that most of what people do now-a-days is NOT what scripture is speaking of. There are very strict guidelines for the use of tongues, such as there being interpretation (these parameters are found in 1 Corinthians 14). The gifts are meant to BUILD up the church, and if there is no interpretation, there is no building up (a note on this - there was a man from Africa who once spoke in his language at a church where people were speaking in tongues. Someone gave an "interpretation" but it was completely wrong). In most churches where tongues are acceptable, these are not in place as they should be.
Second, in many circles tongues become a mark of the Spirit, ie, you're not a "full" believer if you don't speak in tongues. This also is not scriptural, as tongues is a GIFT of the Spirit, not a MARK of the Spirit - so to say you're better than someone because you spoke in tongues is boasting of gifts of the Lord (if it truly was a gift of the Spirit and not emotional hype).
So, in short, while I don't want to cross out the possibility of there still being tongues, in practice that's what it would look like, and I also doubt that much of what happens today is actually of the Spirit.
:)
Arthur:
The definition you found and from the link are almost the same thing. Their just different ways of putting it. Is there any reason why it was nessacary to find the most literal of the verse translation? Were you wondering why it doesn't make sense when you placed the mantle into the verse? I'm not sure. Well, then I'm giving you quote because they can word it better than me when it comes to the descriptions and Greek. Yet I'm not exactly sure what you were asking.
"Katakalupto, the word that refers to the covering a woman places on her head, is composed of the prefix kata-('down") and kalupto ("cover"). This is exactly what a scarf or shawl does -- it hangs down from the top of the head and covers the woman's hair. Peribolaion, the word that refers to the woman's hair as a natural "covering," uses the prefix peri- ("around," as in our English word perimeter). The long hair functions as a frame that flows around the perimeter or border of the woman's face. The word peribolaion appears only twice in the New Testament, but it appears twelve times in the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Bible which was used and quoted by New Testament writers."
Above taken from--
http://members.tripod.com/debatorial_works/id303.htm
That's why the hair is KIND of like a cloak. It flows around the perimeter or border of a ladies' face.
I'm not sure if I answered your question at all...please tell me. Or tell me more clearly what you were wondering.
And I can't change my username, it's already been used. I just tried it.
When I said "it's just a symbol that the parents are going to raise the child up for God.", I meant DEDICATION not baptism. When you dedicate a baby, you don't baptize him or her.
all:
I'm not going to argue about "once saved always saved" and tongues. Sarah, you know where I stand on the "once saved always saved" because we've debated about that before already. That's why I didn't exactly reply to your comment.
Tongues are not gone, but I think they're rare. And I've never ever seen anyone speaking it. And just because s
I think I replied to you all. Tell me if you didn't.
I just want to say that what I do, doesn't mean you should do. Just because I cover my head with a veil, that's not a reason why you who are ladies should. Just because I don't believe Christians should fight in war or have self-defense, doesn't mean you should believe that. That's not a good reason. Look in God's Word. Study it. Absorb it. Ask others. Then either apply it or you don't. I'm not the one who is going to judge you, God is. But please, don't follow me or anybody else simply because of what I do and anybody else does. Know what you're doing and why--WHY you're doing anything. Follow after God!
"It is not the length of life, but the depth of life." Ralph Waldo Emerson
Lucy Anne: Actually, only
Lucy Anne: Actually, only half of 1st Corinthians TALKS about head coverings. The other half is TALKING about the Lord’s Supper. But on every verse in the Bible; yes it does count, but from my understanding, the most important doctrines have other scriptures backing up what they say in different places in the Bible. And, you’ve got to consider what Paul was addressing in that time era as well. And, (I’m not sure what Arthur was talking about, so from my understanding) in 1st Cor. 11:16 it says: But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God. (I need to ask Arthur about that one.) Um, when I clicked on the link, there was so much chapters and stuff, which one do I click on? Thanks. And I can see your reasoning. I rest my case. Do you speak in tongues? Do you have any other beliefs? Like not wearing pants, or something? It would be interesting. But I’m not going to try to convince you that head covering is wrong. That’s what your church and family believes, and it’s not a soul damming thing! It won’t hurt you to wear a head covering. It’s just that me and you believe different things; and that’s perfectly okay. (And actually, I’m not sure if I can debate any more; its very tiring!) Overall, I just really wanted to thank you, Megan, for sharing your beliefs. I’ve definitely learnt something; and discussing the Bible has made me go to the Bible. I’ve really enjoyed our little debate. Thanks . Oh, that’s no good. I’m praying that you’ll get better soon.
Arthur: I had a different interpretation to that. I thought it meant that if any one is being contentious, (meaning: creating a disagreement). Then I thought Paul was saying that for those who are contentious, that there is no such custom, nor do the churches of God. That’s what I thought it meant. Yes, and please, write an essay on tongues! I personally would not like to debate about tongues; it is to long and time consuming, I don’t think I am very well in-doctrinenated (I hope you get that) as some of you AP-ers, and I think that would be very confused.
Kyleigh: I defiantly agree with you on being baptised in the tongues is not a MARK of the Spirit, it is a gift.
Sarah: I am assured because: I have repented of my sins (NOT to say that I don’t sin sometimes; but I have made the desion to commit my life to Jesus.) And I feel the joy and lovely peace of God in my being and know that I am saved. Oh, it’s so wonderful! Hallelujah! (I’m not sure if that’s the right spelling…)
Thanks guys; this has been my very first debate with anyone on Scripture or beliefs, and I’ve found it very interesting. Thanks!
And I'm not sure if I've answered every one's arguements; this is what I get from being absent from AP for a few days; everyone comments! :D
Goodbye? Oh no, please. Can’t we just go back to page one and start all over again?” – Winnie The Pooh
:)
I know that the other half speaks about the Lord's Supper. Do you count the Lord's Supper an important doctrine? Because no other chapter in the Bible talks about the Lord's Supper as far as I know. I mean, of course, the disciples ate with our Lord constantly, but there is no other chapter that supports how to eat the Lord's Supper. Feel free to correct me. And you know, Paul taught many different many things in his letters to the different churches of that time. So if wearing the head-covering (which is one of his teaching) is just for that time era, then why do we follow his rules on marriage in 1st Corinthians and all the other things? After all, he was talking to the churchs of that time era.
You said that the headcovering isn't supported in other parts of the Bible. That's correct. But think about this. I don't think the headcovering needs to be repeated over and over again. The verse" Love your neighbor as yourself" is repeated over and over because it's harder to apply then a headcovering. For the headcovering, you just do it, but the "Love your neighbor as yourself" is something we all need to work on. Of course, I'm not saying that sometimes I feel discomfited when I'm around with people with the headcovering, but not as much. But I am still working on Loving my neighbor as myself.
When you click on the link, keep scrolling down until you see verse 15 underlined. You should go no farther than the first chapter. :)
I have never spoken in tongues. And I agree, speaking in tongues is not a mark of the Spirit but a gift. And I don't think that speaking in tongues has gone away completely.
I believe that ladies should be modest in dress and in manner. We shouldn't be prideful. And we shouldn't dress immodestly. And in my definition of modesty is to wear skirts or dresses. But dressing modestly is not about covering yourself from neck to ankle. You can wear something that covers everything but it can still be immodest if it clings to your figure, your clothing is see-through, or if you bend down, it is revealing, etc. And there's alot of other stuff that I believe.
Do you think wearing the head-covering is wrong?
That's how I feel.
"It is not the length of life, but the depth of life." Ralph Waldo Emerson
Here I go again, commenting
Here I go again, commenting on old posts!
The biggest thing that caught me was the discussion on head-coverings. I believe most importantly that it's your heart and attitude that matter the most. If you are wearing a head-covering because you believe it is your assurance of salvation, or just because your dad told you to, then I think it is wrong. A head-covering is a symbol that tou are under the authority of God (your spiritual head) and your father, or husband (your earthly head). I believe that the Bible commands us to wear a head-covering while we are "praying and prophesying". I have interpreted that it means that we are to wear a head-covering during church services, but others interpret it differently. Arthur said that he believed that a woman's hair is her head-covering, but here is another point: the Bible also states that for a man to have his head covered in church is dishonoring to God. If a woman's covering is her hair, wouldn't it be the same for a man? Should men start shaving their heads before going to a church service? When our church studied 1 Corinthians 11, the greek translation of covering was literally something that you put on. I wear a head-covering during a church service, baptism service.
On modesty, I beleive it is highly important to keep our bodies covered (as men and as women), because we are commanded not to be stumbling-blocks for our brothers. And modesty is not simply wearing a skirt or dress, but it is also having a modest spirit. Not only could you be covered from neck to toe and still show the shape of your body, but you could also be covered from neck to toe WITHOUT showing the shape of your body and still be immodest because of un-christian or inappropriate behavior. I do wear dresses and skirts because of the Bible verse that says for men not to "wear that which pertaineth to a woman" and for women not to "wear that which pertaineth to a man". I do believe that modesty of heart is more important than modesty of dress, but I believe that if you have the former, the latter will follow.
I am also what you would call a "reformed Baptist" and I believe what Calvin believes, but I don't call myself a Calvinist because too many people missunderstand Calvinism.
It was very uplifting to read your testimony, Megan, as well as to read all of the comments. I hope that my comment (although two years late =)) is helpful.
God bless you all!
I don’t thrive off of chaos: chaos thrives off of me.
It's great to hear what other
It's great to hear what other Christians think on this topic. I enjoyed learning a little more about you! I'm glad to read your definition of modesty; not all think of also defining it as an attitude.
I would add to your thoughts on the covering...that Paul uses a different Greek word when he mentions about the women's hair as a natural covering, so when he uses the other word, it doesn't mean the hair is the covering for the women, but that basically, we also need another piece of cloth to cover our natural covering. So since he uses a different word for women's hair as a natural covering, men's hair is their natural covering, and as long as they don't cover it, it honors God to not cover when they pray or prohesy.
Also, Paul also adds another reason to why women should cover that you didn't mention. He says that we should cover "because of the angels". Honestly, I don't know how that works (just a mystery till heaven), but I believe that means that the angels give us special protection. The woman who cover stands out to them. So that is why I've decided to cover at all times as long as my heart is submissive to my authority.
Deciding to cover has been one of the best and biggest decisions in my life - other than becoming a Christian and becoming baptized. You have no idea how many conversations and exciting opportunites to share about this conviction and about Christianity have come up because of this!! Though there was a time where I lost a friend because of this (but now that we're both older and have both become Christians, we've become extremely close again), I was mocked, and relatives didn't understand, in the end, obeying God is always right, and I am 100\% sure and at peace. Look at this debate! It didn't end here...we continued debating elsewhere. Two years later, I'm sure that those who participated (especially Arthur and Maddi and myself) all pray that it would still be useful and encouraging to others to think on what is right.
"It is not the length of life, but the depth of life." Ralph Waldo Emerson
God be Blessed!
Isn't He wonderful?
This reminds me of my testimony.....maybe I'll get around to writing it down some day.
By the way, do you believe in the 5 points of Calvinism?
"My greatest wish for my writing is that it would point you to the Savior."